8800NL: How should I set up fixed IP addresses and DNS?

[billion_fan]

Billionfan,

Right, I've now had a look at the screenshots downloaded from you. I think things are now becoming a little clearer, but I still need to quiz you on one or two aspects.

My first observation is that in the picture of the Mac's DNS tab settings you show both the router's IP address and Google's DNS server address as two usable ones. Is that an acknowledgement by you that it IS indeed possible to use the router's LAN-side address as a DNS?

In the ARP table that you show for the router, ALL LAN device IP addresses show. Did you have to enter all of these yourself? Is this table only necessary if you intend doing ping tests, or is a complete list of all the LAN devices always required there for the basic setup to work for fixed IP addresses? At the moment, if I go to Status/ARP I see only the IP and MAC address of the particular device I'm on. If I go to Advanced Setup/Static ARP (the picture you show), there are no entries at all. So, do I need to compile an ARP table?

Yes that's correct as you can see on the other screen shots, you can use 192.168.1.254 for the DNS server, I personally prefer 8.8.8.8

No the ARP screen shot shown is the 'Status >> ARP' as devices are on static IP addresses, when active they will be shown when left idle they might disappear,(if you use DHCP, they will be shown under Status >> DHCP) If you want you can set all devices to the 'Static ARP' section

Static ARP – you are manually directing IP traffic to a MAC address (best used for Wake on Lan)

[gatekeeper]

I'm still not clear as to what you're saying about your ARP screenshot. Contrary to what you've written, I'm in fact agreeing with you, in the sense that my Status >> ARP shows the CURRENT device's IP and MAC addresses only, but it doesn't show those of the other devices on the LAN.

As far as DHCP goes, I don't use it, so there's no point in me looking under Status >> DHCP.

I specifically don't want to use Wake on LAN.

If I were to use the setting up of static ARP in Advanced Setup >> Static ARP, how would I know the MAC addresses? Do you have to ping from one device to another to get the MAC address, with perhaps the router discovering the MAC address of the recipent and then it automatically filling the value into the appropriate box in Static ARP?

Since first using fixed IP addressing I've always wondered whether it was necessary to compile an ARP table. But then, as I understand it, the main reason for a table is for when you need to perform MAC filtering, where you need to know the MAC addresses beforehand. But I certainly don't ever envisage needing MAC filtering. Perhaps another use of an ARP table is that it can shortcut DNS-ing when you want to communicate from one device to another on the same LAN. I've never found anyone who could ever give me a definitive answer on that, though. It's always left me with a nagging doubt as to whether I've FULLY set up my fixed addressing properly.

At present both computers can access the Internet and can print to the printer, and I'm presuming that one of the two computers will be able to access the other one and vice versa, so all seems sufficient. But I'm thinking that maybe this is still only working by fluke rather than by design and that the missing element is an ARP table with all the addresses in it. So, perhaps I DO need to compile an ARP table?

[billion_fan]

I'm still not clear as to what you're saying about your ARP screenshot. Contrary to what you've written, I'm in fact agreeing with you, in the sense that my Status >> ARP shows the CURRENT device's IP and MAC addresses only, but it doesn't show those of the other devices on the LAN.

As far as DHCP goes, I don't use it, so there's no point in me looking under Status >> DHCP.

I specifically don't want to use Wake on LAN.

If I were to use the setting up of static ARP in Advanced Setup >> Static ARP, how would I know the MAC addresses? Do you have to ping from one device to another to get the MAC address, with perhaps the router discovering the MAC address of the recipent and then it automatically filling the value into the appropriate box in Static ARP?

Since first using fixed IP addressing I've always wondered whether it was necessary to compile an ARP table. But then, as I understand it, the main reason for a table is for when you need to perform MAC filtering, where you need to know the MAC addresses beforehand. But I certainly don't ever envisage needing MAC filtering. Perhaps another use of an ARP table is that it can shortcut DNS-ing when you want to communicate from one device to another on the same LAN. I've never found anyone who could ever give me a definitive answer on that, though. It's always left me with a nagging doubt as to whether I've FULLY set up my fixed addressing properly.

At present both computers can access the Internet and can print to the printer, and I'm presuming that one of the two computers will be able to access the other one and vice versa, so all seems sufficient. But I'm thinking that maybe this is still only working by fluke rather than by design and that the missing element is an ARP table with all the addresses in it. So, perhaps I DO need to compile an ARP table?

Normally you need to check the device it self for the MAC address, depending on the device/OS a quick google search will point you in the right direction.

Normally when devices are using a static IP, they will be shown under 'Status >> ARP' as shown on my screen grabs for each device (four devices in total, these devices are shown when routing, eg browsing the internet for example)

If you add the devices MAC address and IP address to the Static ARP list, the Flag will show as ' Permanent' under 'Status >> ARP.

Complete: the route resolving is processing well. (without Static ARP)
Marked as permanent entry: the route is permanent. (With Static ARP)

As everything is working fine with your setup, I wouldn't worry to much about the ARP etc, but if you want to see all devices under Status >> ARP even when they are not routing then use the Static ARP list.

95% of Billion users leave the DHCP on as default this would be the normal setup method, (as settings devices to use a static IP is a pain, especially when the device is moved to another network eg work)

[gatekeeper]

Yes, the ideal would be for me to have the router distributing IP addresses to the LAN devices using DHCP, but in my case one of the devices on the LAN is a printer (an old HP 4 series laserjet dating back to the 1990s) and that printer has no means (it doesn't have the built-in intelligence) of accepting and dealing with dynamically distributed addresses. The only way the printer could be used on the LAN was by it being allocated a fixed IP address. That then meant that I was forced to use fixed IPs for all the other devices too.

Fixed IP addresses per se shouldn't be problematical if properly set up. Yes, it's quite a lot of work but in principle it only needs to be done once. Fixed addresses only become a big problem if the LAN has lots and lots of devices on it and/or you keep changing the devices. This isn't the case with my setup.

[gatekeeper]

Just as a postscript, I've done a little bit more research on ARP on the Web and discovered that, for the particular setup I'm needing, devising an ARP table in the router is not necessary; the fixed IP addressing will still work fine without there being a table. It looks as though the only sort of advantage gained from setting up a table would be in implementing outward IP filtering. To complete the table properly anyway, you need the MAC addresses too, and a little work is required to discover those MAC addresses. I've managed to do this in my case, including that of the printer.

My setup now seems to be working fine. My thanks to you, billionfan, for assisting and educating me in this aspect of configuring the router.

[billion_fan]

Just as a postscript, I've done a little bit more research on ARP on the Web and discovered that, for the particular setup I'm needing, devising an ARP table in the router is not necessary; the fixed IP addressing will still work fine without there being a table. It looks as though the only sort of advantage gained from setting up a table would be in implementing outward IP filtering. To complete the table properly anyway, you need the MAC addresses too, and a little work is required to discover those MAC addresses. I've managed to do this in my case, including that of the printer.

My setup now seems to be working fine. My thanks to you, billionfan, for assisting and educating me in this aspect of configuring the router.

No problem mate, we got there in the end

[gatekeeper]

Unfortunately, I'm still having a problem, in as much as slowness in the resolving of websites, even ones that I regularly use and the elements of which are largely in cache. On occasions, a website, eg. the BBC website, won't resolve at all. So either something's still not quite right with my router, or my browser is having problems. DNS resolution was fine with my 7800, though, albeit that there I specifically used the router as a DNS server.

It's therefore worth asking about two particular 8800 settings that have been glossed over in our discussion thus far. First, IPv4 address. Is an IPv4 address always defined as being on the WAN side of things, or can a LAN address also be described as an IPv4 address? I ask because of a nagging feeling that perhaps I've not used the appropriate IP address at:

(Opening page of router) - Status - WAN - Default Gateway/IPv4 Address.

For the above gateway IPv4 address, should I have entered 192.168.1.254, or instead the WAN address issued to me by my ISP? I've entered the WAN address.

Second, with me having now set things up for working with fixed IP LAN addresses, with DHCP turned off, and with the computer fetching the DNS from my ISP's DNS server, should the router be assigned 'Use router as DNS server'? Or should it make no difference if I were to do so? At present, I've not got 'Use router as DNS server' enabled.

The rather slow and sometimes failing DNS resolution I'm experiencing from time to time seems to suggest that the router is struggling to achieve the resolution. It might be that I'm still achieving it more by fluke most of the time than by the required method.

[billion_fan]

Unfortunately, I'm still having a problem, in as much as slowness in the resolving of websites, even ones that I regularly use and the elements of which are largely in cache. On occasions, a website, eg. the BBC website, won't resolve at all. So either something's still not quite right with my router, or my browser is having problems. DNS resolution was fine with my 7800, though, albeit that there I specifically used the router as a DNS server.

It's therefore worth asking about two particular 8800 settings that have been glossed over in our discussion thus far. First, IPv4 address. Is an IPv4 address always defined as being on the WAN side of things, or can a LAN address also be described as an IPv4 address? I ask because of a nagging feeling that perhaps I've not used the appropriate IP address at:

(Opening page of router) - Status - WAN - Default Gateway/IPv4 Address.

For the above gateway IPv4 address, should I have entered 192.168.1.254, or instead the WAN address issued to me by my ISP? I've entered the WAN address.

Second, with me having now set things up for working with fixed IP LAN addresses, with DHCP turned off, and with the computer fetching the DNS from my ISP's DNS server, should the router be assigned 'Use router as DNS server'? Or should it make no difference if I were to do so? At present, I've not got 'Use router as DNS server' enabled.

The rather slow and sometimes failing DNS resolution I'm experiencing from time to time seems to suggest that the router is struggling to achieve the resolution. It might be that I'm still achieving it more by fluke most of the time than by the required method.

Both the WAN and LAN need to have a IPv4 address, the question is weather it is a internal address or external address ( eg internal 192.168.1.x external 82.34.33.xxx)

You can use the WAN IP address or the internal address, as the router supports NAT loop back

It should matter as you are manually pointing the DNS servers to your ISP's DNS servers

Try changing the DNS servers to the following addresses eg 8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4 or 208.67.222.222/208.67.220.220

[gatekeeper]

I notice that, when you configure the 8800NL, in some parts it asks for simply 'IPv4 address' but in other parts specifically asks for 'LAN IPv4 address'. This is why, for the former, I've never really been sure whether I should have entered the LAN IP address of the router or instead its WAN address. I entered the WAN address. The router responded by then showing 'IPv4 Address' as 'pppoa0/<my WAN address>. I assume that pppoa0 is actually the LAN side of the router.

In the last 24 hrs I think perhaps I've been needlessly scratching around for clues that'll explain the poor resolving, as I've switched to using my XP machine and, with that, exactly the same websites resolve far faster. Thus, this may simply be a problem with the browser on the Mac (Safari). I've now complained to Apple about it.

[billion_fan]

I notice that, when you configure the 8800NL, in some parts it asks for simply 'IPv4 address' but in other parts specifically asks for 'LAN IPv4 address'. This is why, for the former, I've never really been sure whether I should have entered the LAN IP address of the router or instead its WAN address. I entered the WAN address. The router responded by then showing 'IPv4 Address' as 'pppoa0/<my WAN address>. I assume that pppoa0 is actually the LAN side of the router.

In the last 24 hrs I think perhaps I've been needlessly scratching around for clues that'll explain the poor resolving, as I've switched to using my XP machine and, with that, exactly the same websites resolve far faster. Thus, this may simply be a problem with the browser on the Mac (Safari). I've now complained to Apple about it.

pppoa is the WAN side connectivity type