8800NL: How should I set up fixed IP addresses and DNS?

[gatekeeper]

I'm about to take charge of a new 8800NL, upgrading from a 7800 (wired version). I'm wondering how precisely I need to configure the 8800NL in order to use fixed IP addresses on my home network, as configuring for this, in the 8800NL, seems to be quite different to that in the 7800.

The home network, in which there's also a printer directly on it, has always seemed to work okay with fixed IP addresses, the latter being necessary because the printer has (apparently) no means to handle dynamic ones. That said, I've always had a slight suspicion that I might not have set up the 7800 entirely properly in this regard. I've made no use of a table, for example.

For fixed address working on the network, here's how I've currently got it set up. The 7800 is configured with DHCP turned off but with it acting as a DNS server, ie. the DNS address, as seen by the computers on the network, is the address of the 7800 itself. (I'm led to believe that this is a slightly more secure way of handling DNS under these circumstances). At present, therefore, the Primary DNS address shows in the 7800 as that of my ISP's, whilst I've set the Secondary as Google's. The network (LAN) addresses I'm using are inside the required subnet and are outside the 7800's DHCP (just to be safe).

BTW, is this DNS arrangement effectively what some refer to as DNS Relay? If so, have I done it correctly?

I've been expecting to merely replicate the above with the 8800NL but having downloaded the 8800's user manual and looked through it, this doesn't seem to be possible. So, instead, how should I now configure the 8800NL when I get it?

Do bear in mind that the printer on the network, an old HP Series 4 laserjet, has no intelligence as such and knows its own IP address only because I've laboriously manually inserted it into the printer's frontpanel configuration.

[billion_fan]

I'm about to take charge of a new 8800NL, upgrading from a 7800 (wired version). I'm wondering how precisely I need to configure the 8800NL in order to use fixed IP addresses on my home network, as configuring for this, in the 8800NL, seems to be quite different to that in the 7800.

The home network, in which there's also a printer directly on it, has always seemed to work okay with fixed IP addresses, the latter being necessary because the printer has (apparently) no means to handle dynamic ones. That said, I've always had a slight suspicion that I might not have set up the 7800 entirely properly in this regard. I've made no use of a table, for example.

For fixed address working on the network, here's how I've currently got it set up. The 7800 is configured with DHCP turned off but with it acting as a DNS server, ie. the DNS address, as seen by the computers on the network, is the address of the 7800 itself. (I'm led to believe that this is a slightly more secure way of handling DNS under these circumstances). At present, therefore, the Primary DNS address shows in the 7800 as that of my ISP's, whilst I've set the Secondary as Google's. The network (LAN) addresses I'm using are inside the required subnet and are outside the 7800's DHCP (just to be safe).

BTW, is this DNS arrangement effectively what some refer to as DNS Relay? If so, have I done it correctly?

I've been expecting to merely replicate the above with the 8800NL but having downloaded the 8800's user manual and looked through it, this doesn't seem to be possible. So, instead, how should I now configure the 8800NL when I get it?

Do bear in mind that the printer on the network, an old HP Series 4 laserjet, has no intelligence as such and knows its own IP address only because I've laboriously manually inserted it into the printer's frontpanel configuration.

You can do the same on the 8800NL, the easiest setup method would be to change the IP address to the same IP address of your 7800, and then limit the DHCP to one IP address (so you can still use the router as a DNS server) all devices TCP/IP settings can stay the same and you should be fine

Or just disable the DHCP server setup and change the DNS server to 8.8.8.8 or 208.67.222.222 or your ISP DNS servers

[gatekeeper]

You can do the same on the 8800NL, the easiest setup method would be to change the IP address to the same IP address of your 7800, and then limit the DHCP to one IP address (so you can still use the router as a DNS server) all devices TCP/IP settings can stay the same and you should be fine

I don't doubt that the 8800NL will automatcally have the same LAN IP address as that of the 7800. I don't think there's any choice in that, really. It's a given.

I'm not sure what you're saying about limiting the DHCP to just one address, as I can't see the point of that. If I'm understanding you correctly, how would you ever get communication with the other devices on the network? I'm no great expert on this aspect of networking but my understanding is that you either have DHCP on or off; there's no halfway measure. With it off, you use fixed addresses; with it on, the router dishes out IP addresses automatically to the devices on the network, starting at a specific start address and delivering about 100 of them and recycling them every 24 hrs usually.

[billion_fan]

You can do the same on the 8800NL, the easiest setup method would be to change the IP address to the same IP address of your 7800, and then limit the DHCP to one IP address (so you can still use the router as a DNS server) all devices TCP/IP settings can stay the same and you should be fine

I don't doubt that the 8800NL will automatcally have the same LAN IP address as that of the 7800. I don't think there's any choice in that, really. It's a given.

I'm not sure what you're saying about limiting the DHCP to just one address, as I can't see the point of that. If I'm understanding you correctly, how would you ever get communication with the other devices on the network? I'm no great expert on this aspect of networking but my understanding is that you either have DHCP on or off; there's no halfway measure. With it off, you use fixed addresses; with it on, the router dishes out IP addresses automatically to the devices on the network, starting at a specific start address and delivering about 100 of them and recycling them every 24 hrs usually.

Leaving the DHCP range to one IP address, enables you keep the option of 'Use Router's setting as DNS Server' like you wanted.

You can still use static IP address with or without the DHCP server, as long as the IP address/Subnet/Geteway and DNS address a pointed correctly.

[gatekeeper]

Though a bit oddly in my view, I think that maybe what your saying is that I could set DHCP so that it doesn't operate at all. But (on the 7800 at least) there's a setting for turning DHCP off entirely.

Yes, I've made use of 'Use router as DNS Server'. Doing so makes the DNS address the normal LAN IP address of the router (192.168.1.254). To operate in this way requires that the computers on the LAN be told that the DNS is this address, rather than a DNS server somewhere on the Internet. It's then the router that, in turn, fetches the DNS from across the Internet. This is why I suspect that what I've been implementing on the 7800 is effectively 'relay DNS'.

I've a feeling that there's more than one way of implementing and using fixed IP addresses for devices on a LAN but that the 8800NL, unlike in earlier models, now provides only one method (involving tables and MAC addresses). I hope I'm wrong.

[billion_fan]

Though a bit oddly in my view, I think that maybe what your saying is that I could set DHCP so that it doesn't operate at all. But (on the 7800 at least) there's a setting for turning DHCP off entirely.

Yes, I've made use of 'Use router as DNS Server'. Doing so makes the DNS address the normal LAN IP address of the router (192.168.1.254). To operate in this way requires that the computers on the LAN be told that the DNS is this address, rather than a DNS server somewhere on the Internet. It's then the router that, in turn, fetches the DNS from across the Internet. This is why I suspect that what I've been implementing on the 7800 is effectively 'relay DNS'.

I've a feeling that there's more than one way of implementing and using fixed IP addresses for devices on a LAN but that the 8800NL, unlike in earlier models, now provides only one method (involving tables and MAC addresses). I hope I'm wrong.

You can turn off the DHCP server, and set connecting devices to use a fixed IP, with the DNS and gateway set to the routers IP, as shown and tested on the attached screen shot, so just like your 7800 (you confused me a bit now all cleared up )

[gatekeeper]

Thanks for the screenshot but doing that is insufficient to make the 8800 work with fixed LAN IP addresses. And yes I've set the 8800 to act as a DNS server. Remember, this is ADSL mode. Incidentally, nothing has changed concerning the devices (a PC, a Mac and a printer) on the LAN and their own configurations. It all worked with the 7800 but doesn't work with the 8800 - probably because I've not got one or more configuration settings in the 8800 properly done. There are more of them in the 8800 and some are quite cryptic. Firmware is v.2.32d.dh14.

EZSO was a doddle but EZSO doesn't account for the use of fixed IP addresses. The best I've managed to get is the PC to log in to the router and it also be able to access the Internet, but the Mac on my LAN has been unable to either access the router or the Internet. In the end I fudged a connection by deleting the router's LAN IP address from the Mac's DNS and then reinserting the address. The Mac then connected. Clearly, I still haven't got something in the 8800 properly configured. Perhaps the only way you can use fixed IP addresses in the 8800 is by using an ARP table, but I've not the experience to do that.

Incidentally, why don't I see Log Out in the bottom-right of the router's interface? All that's there is Restart. Surely, that's wrong, as you need to be able to properly log out of the router?

I played around with several settings in the 8800's Advanced menu, such as Advanced/Setup, trying both 'Select DNS interface from available ...' and 'Static DNS address' but to no avail (entering router's address and my ISP's DNS). I presume pppoa0 to be effectively the address of the router?

None of this is going to work properly until I can find someone who's highly experienced in configuring routers at the more detailed level and who knows the requisite settings for the 8800.

Oh BTW, the PC runs on WinXP and so there are no detailed IPv4 server settings as shown to the right in your screenshot. Such settings are even sparser on the Mac (a fairly new Mac).

[billion_fan]

I have attached some screen shots for you. (I have taken the time to do this just for you)

For the DNS section this is for the WAN, so you need to enter a valid DNS address eg 8.8.8.8 or 208.67.222.222 or your ISP DNS servers also shown on the attached screen shot

As you can see on my setup I have a winxp, win 7, win 8 and iMac all working off a static IP addresses, with the DHCP server off on the 8800NL, all testing was done using a ADSL connection

I hope this helps with your setup (its a simple setup anyway )

There is no log out button with the new OS on the new 7800 series or 8800 series, all you need to do is close your web browser and you should be logged out.

What is strange about your setup is the re-adding the DNS server made your iMac connect to the routers web gui, normally DNS servers are not needed if you connecting to a internal IP address, meaning the issue should not have been with the DNS servers, (DNS servers translate a domain address to IP address)

[gatekeeper]

Many thanks for the attachment; I'll have a look at it in due course.

Since my last posting I've realised my comprehension of this area of router configuration has been wanting. I now see that your advice on this particular issue makes complete sense. I think I've now finally got my setup right. Well, at least as regards the DNS.

Yes, I too couldn't figure out why reinserting the DNS address into the Mac did the trick, but in any event I've now changed all of that. Originally, what I was trying to do, and which had always seemed to work before with my 7800, was to use the router as a kind of relay/proxy server in respect of DNS. So, the DNS address was 192.168.1.254. This is, I understand, quite acceptable as a method for DNS resolution and I gather that this is why, in these Billion routers, there's a setting called 'Use router as DNS Server'. But I've concluded that this is probably of no great advantage, as the router will always finally fetch the DNS from an external IP address anyway - usually, one's ISP's DNS server, or a public one like Google's.

I've now changed it all, unchecking 'Use router as DNS server'. I now specifically use my ISP's DNS as the primary one, with Google's as the secondary one. In the 8800 I found that not until I inserted those addresses into Configuration/WAN (around p97 in the online user manual) did it then work. This could have arisen, though, by me missing entering the values at some much earlier point in the 8800's configuring. There's so much that can be configured in this router that it's all too easy to miss things.

Anyway, it appears to be all working now. One thing I almost forgot was then to go back into the XP's network settings and change the DNS addresses, as well as in the Mac's DNS tab. I'd previously had those as 192.168.1.254 but have now deleted that and inserted my ISP's DNS and Google's instead.

As for DHCP, that's still disabled. The various devices each have their own fixed IP address. I'm still not sure, though, whether the router needs to have a lookup table for them, ie. whether you're supposed to set up an ARP table in the router with each fixed address and its corresponding MAC address.

[gatekeeper]

Billionfan,

Right, I've now had a look at the screenshots downloaded from you. I think things are now becoming a little clearer, but I still need to quiz you on one or two aspects.

My first observation is that in the picture of the Mac's DNS tab settings you show both the router's IP address and Google's DNS server address as two usable ones. Is that an acknowledgement by you that it IS indeed possible to use the router's LAN-side address as a DNS?

In the ARP table that you show for the router, ALL LAN device IP addresses show. Did you have to enter all of these yourself? Is this table only necessary if you intend doing ping tests, or is a complete list of all the LAN devices always required there for the basic setup to work for fixed IP addresses? At the moment, if I go to Status/ARP I see only the IP and MAC address of the particular device I'm on. If I go to Advanced Setup/Static ARP (the picture you show), there are no entries at all. So, do I need to compile an ARP table?